TM Debate Contest II -Sabah vs Silentsmile

[Don]

[SHADOW="1"]

Topic: Being Modern Is Good For Our Society
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Sabah: Have to Go for the topic ( Being Modern IS good for our society )
SilentSmile: Have to go against the topic ( Being Modern is NOT good for our society )

Hints and Tips for both contestants:

• Being Modern is good for our society.
  • people will be modern and stylish.
  • Education level will increase in our society
  • less crime will occur.
• Being Modern is Not good for our society.
  • may go away from Islam.
  • Our (Pakistani) heritage will die
  • poor families will feel isolated from society.

Please, remember and follow DEBATE RULES


This Topic Will Close in 12 days ( December 17th 2010 )[/SHADOW]

 

[Sabah]

[SHADOW="1"]By The name of Almighty Allah
who is the most merciful and compassionate as well[/SHADOW]

[SHADOW="1"]As my contribution is about (Being Modern IS good for our society)
so I would try my best to bring this topic more clear and sanely to let others know what actually is the meaning and method of being modern according to religion and society.[/SHADOW]

​

This is we who have given the diffrent meaning for the word modern otherwise being modern is to set up yourself related to vogue of the soceity and the world... if the world and its vogue will change and yet you will remain with the best of what you have gain from that time is still being a modern..

I believe that as a religion Islam is very modern in terms of rights, ways of living and in the field of science. Of course, not if you think that being modern is the way you dress and not a state of mind. I choose my moral lifestyle over that one.
Islam makes you a very peaceful person if you understand it very well. because it is Islam which gives the full rights of a woman which yet many people are neglecting the rights of a woman but in the place where lack of modernity and education exist if we declare it to people that woman has the full right to go out for studying and for working so many people will say [SHADOW="1"]"that it is your modern thinking woman should stay at home and just do house work what if they stay unknown and aknowledge from studies and worldwhile happening"[/SHADOW] so in this case I would say modernity is compatible with islam and that is what our soceity needs because if you stay modern,you go out,know the world and get what is happening arround and let others know so it is really Sufficient for us so in that case I would surely say that being modern is good for the soceity because you develope your capacity and sane by inventing and bringing up some extra logic, it is what our community and soceity is in plenty need of...

If by thinking of some people sitting at home is obeying the traditions of your family culture and going out for learning and increasing education is being modern so I would be more happy to accept my self as a modern muslim girl.

 

[Don]

24 hours have past, Silentsmile was failed to reply. Therefore, Sabah is the winner and this debate is now closed. Unless Sabah and Silentsmile both agreed to continue this thread.

Congrats Sabah

 

[Don]

This thread is now open.....

 

[silentsmile]

Assalam u Alaikum WR WB,

Hopefully you all will be alright . My topic is "[HL="Yellow"][GLOW="Green"]Being Modern is not Good for our Society[/GLOW][/HL]". Before I start my debate; Let me take you to the point that I wanna clear first.

Just Look at this:

Now decide yourself & tell me what is this? is this modernism we want in our society? what you think is it in line with the moral values of Islam? Is this right?

Today we have to decide where our society is going. Our country is Islamic Republic of Pakistan means "Islami Jamhoria Pakistan". Where is Islam here? The harsh truth is; our society is rapidly going towards such modernism which is simply not allowed in Islam . In the name of modernism we cross our limits and then cry what's wrong with us.

I believe that as a religion Islam is very modern in terms of rights, ways of living and in the field of science.

I agree with Sabah that as a religion Islam is very modern. Besides Islam is giving you such opportunities to grow and modernize yourself even then our society is following some other west traditions and heritage. They don't bother what is in Islam and what is not?

Another point that I wanna raise, some people thought they are living in heaven. Where ever they looked they found peace. Every old man, every old woman, every single chilld, every disable identity have been living like a king. Is it true? Just look around your society and decide what is the right answer. Answer is, there are many many many people want your help, many old man and women, disable child are hungry. Your modernism must need some money but what about these poor people? In modern society you have to bring yourself what ever society required. Fast foods, 3 piece suits, new fashion that's what we need to be modern. These modern societies don't bother if there is some old man counting his last breaths in neighbor....{(Sad1)}

In the end I would like to say that the modernism we wanna bring in our society is not matching with our Islamic values, our heritage and our identity. A silent smile can't be enough to cut out this attitude. If our society would like to choose the modernism I explained before then I am afraid darkness will be our destination....!

 

[Sabah]

Walaikum salam...
Well dear as being a muslim iam also not agree to live in society which advocates such freedom and democracy because this is against our Islamic shariya and even against the country law...
but you can not blame the modernity here because as you shown these exclusive pictures its the gilt and mistake of there own psyche which they lead us go astray so they are so far away from islam and its terms.. and these respected leaders more than a country thinks about there own wages and own profit...
If its only because of modernity so i would like to mention here about the visit of Angelina Jolie to pakistan...

[SHADOW="2"]Angelina Jolie's views about pakistan[/SHADOW]

She is not happy with the attitude of the authorities and the government, who were more interested in toeing her line, watching her make movements, trying to please her while pushing the flood victims. She was also perturbed at the Prime Minister’s wish that his family wanted to meet him.
Prime Minster’s family was especially flown down all the way from Multan to Islamabad and they presented expensive gifts to Jolie and had a sumptuous meal with her.
She said that she was feeling awful at that time to see so much food at the table, suffice for hundreds of flood victims who were fighting like crazy to get a small bag of flour and a small bottle of water. She was ill at ease when she saw the interior of lavish Premier house and some of the government buildings and the chartered planes and other such luxuries, when there was so much misery outside.

Here I mentioned about her just because she is a modern female hollywood actress but still she helped our poor people and felt the problem of our flood victims... so now where the modernity is blamed why to be against the modernity which feels the problem of these poor people.
U also mentioned

Another point that I wanna raise, some people thought they are living in heaven. Where ever they looked they found peace. Every old man, every old woman, every single chilld, every disable identity have been living like a king. Is it true? Just look around your society and decide what is the right answer. Answer is, there are many many many people want your help, many old man and women, disable child are hungry. Your modernism must need some money but what about these poor people?

u said that the western people are living like a king and modernity needs money...
who says that our country doesnt have money do you have any financial information about the country?
from where it comes and where it goes, does any body asked about that ?
this is the problem no body asks and no body debates about the finance of the country thats why our poor people are living the life full of poverty,drought and hardship...
if our country leaders doesnt think about it so by thinking of just we 2 person nothing will happen..anyways
I'll say this again that no dispute can accuse the modernity which brings peace, increase knowledge and fullfill the plenty needs of our poor people..

Thank you...

 

[silentsmile]

1st of all Thanks Sabah for your points.. Here are mine:

Well dear as being a muslim iam also not agree to live in society which advocates such freedom and democracy because this is against our Islamic shariya and even against the country law...

That's what i wanna say..

but you can not blame the modernity here because as you shown these exclusive pictures its the gilt and mistake of there own psyche which they lead us go astray so they are so far away from islam and its terms.. and these respected leaders more than a country thinks about there own wages and own profit...

Helloo.. plz plz let me stop you here. you said they are so far away from islam and its terms...

First of all they are our representatives. We chose them. Most of them belong to noble families. They are nothing without our support. You can check history.. Each & every modern identity did the same. Hence it proved being modern is not good for our society.. see... we should change the system not the faces..

Here I mentioned about her just because she is a modern female hollywood actress but still she helped our poor people and felt the problem of our flood victims... so now where the modernity is blamed why to be against the modernity which feels the problem of these poor people.

I think you haven't read the script well. The Hollywood Actress is the representative of United Nations. She joined this organization not only to help the poor but also to famous herself... Even then if it is true my question is Where are the other modern actors??

who says that our country doesnt have money do you have any financial information about the country?
from where it comes and where it goes, does any body asked about that ?
this is the problem no body asks and no body debates about the finance of the country thats why our poor people are living the life full of poverty,drought and hardship...

yes I know.. all of us know.. whatever the circumstances are.. truth is, we are facing difficult problems.. various taxes are being enforced on us.. so I ask every one reading this what we should do? choose a way of modernity or choose a simple way of life to live in society?

if our country leaders doesnt think about it so by thinking of just we 2 person nothing will happen..

That's the real problem of us.. we don't realize that single single drop collectively make an ocean.. Just imagine if we step up and convey our message of simplicity instead of modernism not even to the whole world but just to TM members.. We can spread this fragrance in thousands minds.. and may be they also convey it to their groups.. If we do that inner satisfaction will be our friend forever otherwise our name would also be in the list of culprits of Peace whom burnt the truth.

 

[Sabah]

Dear I think you didn't get my points and views about being a modern
as I mentioned before and Iam saying this again we need modernity of education and understanding...
being modern is not something for which you need money, or its not about your dressing style its about how you think, how you behave and how you react with obstaclements and majorities of the soceity which are always being against the rights and terms of humanity and sometimes against the rights of a woman.
Does simple life means to just keep quiet and watch whatever happens?
no this is not the goal and aim of our life,
we should live the life but the way which is prosper and lighten for which modernity of mind and modernity of a peacefull society is needed... and i think such modernity regulates both rich and poor and here no matter of money exist but the way of thinking...

 

[silentsmile]

Dear I understood your points. Let me clear my points to you and the honorable readers. I agree with the picture you sketched about modernism. But put your hand on your heart & tell me Is it the exact modernism our society will choose? Is they will also be the same passengers of your idealized car of modernism? Come on and be realistic Sabah. Reality is; in our society modernism is meant to change your life style. Adopt heritage of west. Dressed well, ate well, don't bother any one; the thing matters in our society's modernism is ourself. I myself have never seen a single modern man or woman who thinks like you are describing. Its harsh but it's true. So why choose this kind of modernism for our society?

We are here to discuss the ground realities not the fantasy world. Otherwise even a child knows what is good and whats not. So please look around and realize the truth and tell the TM members. If you are thinking I am playing point scoring game or giving these arguments to win this debate then I am sorry I am not in such peace of mind. Its good I got this subject otherwise I would have preferred my loss instead of winning by pushing my society in darkness. Thanks

 

[Sabah]

let me tell you one thing whatever u said if I also think the same so this debate shouldn't countinoue anymore the topic which is given to us is not by our own choice but the choice of admin so I can not submit my self to your views i should talk about the topic, the way which is more sanely and near to reality and I need to talk only about the topic, I have no further words to say accross the topic or else...
anyways here are my replies to your qoutes...

Come on and be realistic Sabah. Reality is; in our society modernism is meant to change your life style. Adopt heritage of west. Dressed well, ate well, don't bother any one; the thing matters in our society's modernism is ourself. I myself have never seen a single modern man or woman who thinks like you are describing. Its harsh but it's true.

If you haven,t seen even a single modern person about which Iam talking no problem let me show you that whatever I said was not just the words or thoughts and not the fantasy thinking as u said but it is the reality and these are those personlaities which are known prestigiously in our society..and this time iam indicating some muslims personalities and islamic scholars...

1: Sami Yusuf:

Sami Yusuf is a modern British singer-songwriter. Yusuf's music consists mostly of songs relating to Islam and being a Muslim in today's rapidly changing world.[2] He also deals with many social and humanitarian issues in his music. He is fast becoming a very popular figure in the Islamic world, According to The Guardian, he "is perhaps the most famous British Muslim in the world".
Yusuf is active in charity work. Yusuf travelled to Sudan and visited a Sudanese orphanage as part of support mission to raise awareness for sick children and AIDS victims in the region.

2: Dr.Zakir Naik:

Dr.Zakir Naik is a moderate Muslim Scholar and medical doctor by professional training, Dr. Zakir Naik is the president of Islamic Research Foundation, Mumbai.
Dr. Zakir clarifies Islamic viewpoints and clears misconceptions about Islam, using the Qur’an, authentic Hadith and other religious Scriptures as a basis, in conjunction with reason, logic and scientific facts.

3: Sheikh Ahmed Deedat:

Sheikh Ahmed Deedat, the world famous orator on Islam and Comparative Religion, who had called Dr. Zakir “Deedat Plus” in 1994, presented a plaque in May 2000 with the engraving “Awarded to Dr. Zakir Abdul-Karim Naik for his achievement in the field of Da’wah and the study of Comparative Religion. Son what you have done in 4 years had taken me 40 years to accomplish, Alhamdulillah”.

this is what from the start I was trying to make you understand I know that such people are hard to find but they are amongs us and they are not entity of any fantasy world

you also said:

modernism is meant to change your life style. Adopt heritage of west. Dressed well, ate well, don't bother any one;

here I want to mention the name of Islamic Scholar Dr.Zakir naik he dress well never bothers and ofcourse spreads the glory of peace and the knowledge and truth about Islam and he is a moderate Islamic person ofcourse, so is there any bad on it?
u said truth is harsh to accept but we have to accept.
so now you should accept as well that my intentions are also not only for winning this contest or emulating you but to let everyone knows which kind of modernism is needed and is good for the society...

 

[silentsmile]

Where it is written that if you agree with my points the topic 'll be over? In fact this competition is to show a guideline to the members and readers about what they or the society should adopt?

btw m not saying to submit yourself to my views. I am just saying to admit the reality. As I also admitted what you said right. I accept your point of modernism thinking. But my point is the definition you provided is not the same if we compare it to the modernism adopted by the societies today.

The examples you provided are very true. All these personalities are real modernized Islamic persons. But I am talking about the lay man or the majority of the citizens of a society. & They (the personalities you mentioned) also condemned the modernism now a days societies have adopted.

Last but not the least my point is today overall the World; modernism adopted by the nations is not the solution of the equation. We should change this scenario, the script. Thanks for all of your comments and responses. Now put it in front of TM & readers they themselves will decide which way of life is good for society?

Note: The arguments presented here are just to show the both sides of coin. There was nothing personal. If you take any thing personal I am sorry. It was never my intension to do so.

Here my conversation concludes. Thanks all for reading.

Allah Hafiz

 

[Sabah]

If you are thinking I am playing point scoring game or giving these arguments to win this debate then I am sorry I am not in such peace of mind. Its good I got this subject otherwise I would have preferred my loss instead of winning by pushing my society in darkness.

u said its good u got this subject otherwise u would prefer your loss so it means the topic which I got is completely undebatable... so for that reason I said "I can not submit my self to your views" anyways iam not takeing this personally if you are pointing me its just a general debate and iam takeing it easy...
it was a nice conversation with you thank you..

 

[Don]

This debate is now closed!!!
Will post result by Monday Inshallah !!!